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Denali
Forum Staff/Administrator
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1240
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 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: Obama axes Project CONSTELLATION |
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http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-no-moon-for-nasa-20100126,0,2770904.story
Okay. I have no choice.
[Naughty Word] YOU OBAMA. [Naughty Word] YOU.
WTF?! WE SHOULD HAVE STAYED THERE WHEN WE FIRST WENT IN 1969!!! WE SHOULD HAVE LANDED ON MARS MORE THAN A DECADE AGO!!! GRH!!! *Deep breath* Space is where the future of our species lies, why the Heck do we keep selling it short?! *Resisting urge to punch hand through computer screen* All that hard work, all that time and effort, for nothing, unbelievable. I'm literally speechless right now.
And don't hold your breath on this "heavy lift" rocket either...
Obama. You know, I used to think it was benign neglect, but now I see that you are intentionally screwing me. You're pissing on us without even the courtesy of calling it rain.
WHY DID I VOTE FOR YOU?!
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GeminiStroke
Awesome Contributer
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Great. Now China's going to claim the rest of the universe for itself (no offense to our lovely Chinese ladies here on the forum, of course)!
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Butterfly Spirit
Mythic Contributor
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 381
Location: Not entirely there
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Am I a terrible person for thinking that it doesn't really matter?
I think that right now we need to worry about this planet, Earth, before we go off to collect samples from others. Our planet is hurting, our economy is hurting.
Ideally we would have enough money go to Mars. Ideally I would live in a mansion and Rosey-Bob wouldn't die in a few years and everybody would be flower children and nobody would use drugs and nobody would die in Haiti and all the terrorists would spontaneously combust and... and... on and on.
We don't live in an ideal world. We don't have enough money. Blame whoever you want, but that is the reality.
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Wing of Faith
Forum Staff/ Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 314
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly Spirit wrote: | Am I a terrible person for thinking that it doesn't really matter?
I think that right now we need to worry about this planet, Earth, before we go off to collect samples from others. Our planet is hurting, our economy is hurting.
Ideally we would have enough money go to Mars. Ideally I would live in a mansion and Rosey-Bob wouldn't die in a few years and everybody would be flower children and nobody would use drugs and nobody would die in Haiti and all the terrorists would spontaneously combust and... and... on and on.
We don't live in an ideal world. We don't have enough money. Blame whoever you want, but that is the reality. |
I try not to be judgmental, but yes, you are a terrible person. Furthermore, you are entirely wrong.
James Cameron said it better than I could:
| Quote: | People are always saying we've gotta solve our problems right here on Earth before we go spending money out in space. It makes me puke, frankly.
Check back in 500 or 1,000 years and people are still gonna be talking about all the problems that need to be solved. We're never gonna reach some utopian plateau where everything is solved so we can kind of with lordly confidence look around for worlds to conquer as some kind of hobby. You know, not spreading ourselves out within the solar system now, when we have the capability to do so, is one of the problems we have to be solving right here on Earth.
We're really at a turning point: We either go forward or we go back. By stopping and stagnating, we actually go back. I look around at the turn of the millennium and I see a prosperous, powerful, technologically unparalleled society, which collectively has no purpose but to feather its own nest. It's a goal-less, rudderless society dedicated to increasing security and creature comforts. Our children are raised in a world without heroes. They are led to believe that heroism consists of throwing a football the furthest, getting the most hang time during a slam dunk, or selling the most movie tickets with your looks and your boyish charm.
This is not heroism, and these are not the valid tests of our mettle as an intelligent race. Young kids need something to dream about, something to measure their value system again. They live in a sea of mind numbing affluence, a point-and-shoot video game world where it's hip not to care, where death and violence have no meaning, where leaders are morally bankrupt, and where the scientific quest for understanding is so not cool. Going to space is not a luxury we can't afford. It's a necessity we can't afford to be without. We need this.
We need this, or some kind of challenge like it, to bring us together to all feel a part of something and to have heroes again. The problem is there's no challenge on our horizon like Outer Space. If we rise to a challenge, we're gonna redefine ourselves, and we're gonna ratchet ourselves up another notch in the evolutionary ladder. In return, Space will reward us with answers to profound questions and with a renewed sense of self-worth as a species. |
He's right, and abandoning a project that will take us further into the stars to achieve our ultimate destiny is not only wrong, but a crime against humanity. What we need is to see what's out there, to push our boundaries. We need this. We need the challenge, we need the hope, the courage, and the wonder.
Change is at the heart of what we are, and by not moving forward, we do ourselves a horrible injury. Without this, we cannot become what we must be; valuable knowledge is never acquired, and it is knowledge that would be invaluable to moving forward in the best way. People speak of progress being a good thing, and I can think of no better progress than reaching out into the stars.
There is no plausible ideal world, especially the one you wrote about (which, by the way, is an utterly impossible one and you know it). People just can't support that. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make the world as wonderful as we can. It's why I'm a therapist. Things like cleaning up the world are things that you can do yourself, and you should be expected to do those things without anyone telling you to do it. But pushing into space is one of the things you can't do, and only the government can do; not only CAN do, but SHOULD.
A moon mission makes the economy you speak of get its rear in gear; otherwise hurting companies are contracted to make the equipment and spacecraft, those companies hire otherwise hurting individuals to do it, and the wonderful wheel of economics begins to turn once again.
You may or may not remember the International Space Station being planned, but I remember it in crystal clear detail. It was a time of hope, and anything was possible. Nations actually cooperated to build it, and everyone was abuzz about all that we were going to learn from this venture. No one gave the cost a second thought, because we knew that this was going to make the world a better place.
In the end, we learned a LOT from that venture. The knowledge we acquired from the experiments conducted on the ISS have made your life better in ways you probably don't even know about. But alas, people forgot what that hope and eagerness felt like, and the world devolved into the pitiful state it's in now.
Returning man to the moon would have been a triumph that would spawn a new generation of heroes to inspire our youths to be better, and help ready us for pushing out even further into space.
This isn't about the Moon, as Obama believes. This is about the future of our species, and the fact that you didn't see that right away speaks to how ignorant the world is becoming.
"When men lie together in lust, it is a surrender to the
passions and does nothing for the excellence in us... But
when men lie together, and knowledge and virtue are passed
between them that is pure and excellent, and allows us to leap up from our intellectual frog pond." - Aristotle
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JUMP! DANCE! Feel the beat and groove to the music! |
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Sorrior
Advanced Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Anchorage,Alaska
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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One thing i suspect wing of faith forgot to add is that going to the moon and other planets will undoubtedly lead to the very tech for fixing environmental problems you so desire Butterfly Spirit. Whether it be by developing terraforming tech or just learning to make bubble cities or how about pulling a improved futurama and sending trash to Sol. Space travel shall do many things and just for kicks i'm gonna mention a bit of an interesting part of an anime called Vandread.
In that humans on earth reached a point where evolution ceased and thus sent people to space to help continue evolution. That's another good reason. Though i personally say develop space weapons before we go too far out. You never know what we'll meet.
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I never cared about justice, and I don't ever recall calling myself a hero... I have always only fought for the people that I believe in. I won't hesitate... If an enemy appears before me, I will destroy it! Zerobax a questionable site |
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Wing of Faith
Forum Staff/ Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 314
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Sorrior wrote: | | an anime called Vandread. |
Saw it, and I think it's not even relevant to the discussion at hand (it was Darn funny though!).
| Sorrior wrote: | Though i personally say develop space weapons before we go too far out. You never know what we'll meet.
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NO. Let's cross that bridge when we get to it. The last thing we should do is mar space with weapons fire.
Building a giant railgun to blow up an incoming global killer asteroid? That's cool, but we should be a peaceful race. At least in space, we have a chance to become that. I don't want to see us throw that away so needlessly.
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JUMP! DANCE! Feel the beat and groove to the music! |
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Sorrior
Advanced Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Anchorage,Alaska
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Wing of Faith wrote: | | Sorrior wrote: | | an anime called Vandread. |
Saw it, and I think it's not even relevant to the discussion at hand (it was Darn funny though!).
| Sorrior wrote: | Though i personally say develop space weapons before we go too far out. You never know what we'll meet.
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NO. Let's cross that bridge when we get to it. The last thing we should do is mar space with weapons fire.
Building a giant railgun to blow up an incoming global killer asteroid? That's cool, but we should be a peaceful race. At least in space, we have a chance to become that. I don't want to see us throw that away so needlessly. |
Well my general point with vandread was that space travel can be useful in more than a few ways and while that series never covered it going to other planets could lead to new forms of humans just by adapting. Though i guess i see your point i just finished it and it was in my head.
About the weapons personally i'd rather not be caught with our pants down. Though i see your point and have considered it. So why not say make it so 80-95% of humans(or whatever our descendants call themselves) will need to agree on it. The other possibility is to link them to some form of attack with say an energy sensor or impact trigger. though with an emergency override for unknown types of attack. Of course the impact version would need to be set not to go off from a simple asteroid or space floatsom.
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I never cared about justice, and I don't ever recall calling myself a hero... I have always only fought for the people that I believe in. I won't hesitate... If an enemy appears before me, I will destroy it! Zerobax a questionable site |
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Butterfly Spirit
Mythic Contributor
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 381
Location: Not entirely there
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Wing of Faith wrote: | I try not to be judgmental, but yes, you are a terrible person. Furthermore, you are entirely wrong.
James Cameron said it better than I could:
| Quote: | People are always saying we've gotta solve our problems right here on Earth before we go spending money out in space. It makes me puke, frankly.
Check back in 500 or 1,000 years and people are still gonna be talking about all the problems that need to be solved. We're never gonna reach some utopian plateau where everything is solved so we can kind of with lordly confidence look around for worlds to conquer as some kind of hobby. You know, not spreading ourselves out within the solar system now, when we have the capability to do so, is one of the problems we have to be solving right here on Earth.
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Hindsight is 20/20, eh? The truth is we here, right here, right now, don't know what could have been. What would have happened if we had used past budget surpluses more effectively? What will happen as a result of Obama's proverbial axe? I don't know. I doubt the implications of said axing will be so obvious that it will jump up and scream, "LOOK AT ME! I AM A DIRECT RESULT OF OBAMA's MISTAKE, AND NOTHING ELSE CONTRIBUTED TO ME!!!1!!1" History does no work like that. The 'want of the shoe' story will never happen, because an event - say, a battle - is the result of thousands of factors, and the outcome of that event is the result of thousands more. You cannot say you know exactly what would have happened if that horse had a shoe. I will laugh long and hard at you if you try. "What if...?" scenarios are hogwash. I love Choose Your Own Adventure stories, but they don't exist in real life. You can't flip through the pages of history, find the outcome you want, and make your life conform to it. You just can't.
What you can do is have common sense. Such as, don't shoot yourself in the foot, because it will hurt, and you'll have to go to the hospital. Maybe pay bills out of your own pocket. Please don't ask me to predict how much. I can't.
Other, more complicated puzzles that were never meant to be solved, such as budget trims, have so many possible outcomes. Maybe the world will end! OH NOES! More likely, though, the world will keep trudging along, as it always has. People will come into the world, and people will leave. There'll be money, there'll be no money. Who knows what we'll do with it, or not do with it?
I'm not advocating lying down and surrendering to the ways of the universe. That would be stupid. What I am saying is that there are things you can control and things you can control with effort and things that will probably never be controlled (or, if they can, it's more than likely a bad thing).
Am I making any sense? Probably not. Whatever. It's nearly classtime, and I didn't have any breakfast. Bite me.
EDIT: Fixed typos. I'm so tired. *yawn*
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